So now I’d like to comment on the section that has vexed us in the past: the commercial zone east of Irving Street. I see what the consultant did, and why he did it. The design, to be consistent with other sections, is to create the green bike EB path across the two berm openings. That’s fine. Then this requires that the EB bike lane be striped alongside the berm. I still am finding that an issue. Is there an expectation that shoppers will not park along the berm? Where’s all that parking going to go? The berm side has no drainage and water often pools up there. No problem for a parked car, but WB cyclists would be slogging through the water (which they don’t do when they bike straight down the middle). Also cars and trucks do tend to park there, even on Saturdays, when the stores are closed, and Sundays. I’ve recently seen some people who are coming from or going to the pet store on the south side of Comm Ave park there on weekends.
It’s not an issue if you are 1) not expecting EB cyclists to actually stay in that lane, and 2) not expecting shoppers to not park there despite the marking. These retail shops on both sides are becoming more and more popular and the lot more and more often full, every space used up.
I think if you’re essentially “removing parking” along the berm, which isn’t actually legal anyway but it is de facto done and common and expected, you’re going to hear from the retail stores on this one.
Ultimately there is going to have to be capital expenditure and redesign here. The berm openings are going to have to be significantly narrowed, which will add parking space to the berm. Then at each end there’s going to have to be a pedestrian crosswalk across Comm Ave with an RRFB that induces shoppers and employees to park there, knowing they can safely cross Comm Ave. And the Irving St sidewalk is going to have to be reconstructed to make walking down Irving safer, and thus parking on Irving, and create space for the delivery trucks to park.
Also it’s my hope that somebody from the City DPW request that the USPS relocate that mail drop box.
My proposal is just another way to indicate the right of way. I agree we should be thinking about branding and clear delineation in the future, but also agree that takes time.
You could certainly have green stripes as part of the design. I still wonder, though, if drivers will be looking for bikes traveling west as much as they should. Maybe you can put down green on both directions, but that’s a whole lot of kind of expensive paint. It’s almost branding without the brand, which has advantages and disadvantages.
Yes, this section requires much thought AND much discussion with the businesses about how to get the details right.
To clarify (it came up in CSWG), the parking spaces next to the berm are being maintained (or would be made official – I believe David Koses said they might not be official parking spaces). The EB bike lane goes next to the parked cars.
I think in this area having formal lanes doesn’t really work. This space is something like a cross between a road, two intersections, and a parking lot. To me, the carriageway here could be behave more like a long crosswalk but for bikes, if that makes sense, a “follow the yellow brick road” through the parking lot.
In contrast, pushing EB bicyclists up against parked cars as proposed makes them less visible to drivers who might be entering the parking lot. And it doesn’t read like a through street either, so it makes sense to draw attention to through bicyclists going WB.
This is a case where traffic markings don’t really work well, it may be impossible to divide up the space with lanes, and some distinctive branding that wasn’t official MUTCD would be helpful.
I agree this location will need engineering. Narrow the entrances and possibly raise them, provide clear directionality for motor vehicles, and delineate the carriageway. It still won’t be easy.
You could certainly have green stripes as part of the design. I still wonder, though, if drivers will be looking for bikes traveling west as much as they should.
I think it’s a process. On the straight flat road, I see them doing this more and more, waiting longer at the stop sign too. I think with this design, even more drivers will, and more often. But ultimately on those problematic streets, where clear visibility is absent, and other factors, a geometric redesign and capital outlay will be required to more fully achieve full stops and looking right.
Then there are easy things: for example, a request to USPS to relocate postal drop boxes on the NW corners. Westbourne, Morton come to mind.
Maybe you can put down green on both directions, but that’s a whole lot of kind of expensive paint. It’s almost branding without the brand, which has advantages and disadvantages.
Right. I do also like the ‘Morse code‘ dit dit dit lines. Maybe Jason or Isaac at the public meeting can tell us what the dimensions of each dit would be.
It seems like everyone is tying themselves into knots trying to make it 2-way for bikes with just paint and without removing cross traffic and some parking. I’m all in favor of having a 2 way bicycle boulevard and the carriageway is a good place to create one. BUT…
The problem areas (cross traffic, commercial areas) can’t be addressed with just paint. Drivers will be confused. Bicycles will take the route that “feels” the most safe and requires the least amount of effort regardless of all the green paint.
I won’t use the carriage road in any direction now and all the green paint and officially allowing 2-way biking won’t make it better. There are too many stop signs for the bikes, which bicycles ignore because starting and stopping every block is a non-starter when you’re trying to get somewhere on a bike.
If it’s made 2-way, cars should be forced to stop at each cross street, or better yet blocked from crossing the median completely, except at major intersections. It’s a game of chicken now with 1-way biking and all this confusing green paint makes it worse. Encouraging 2-way bike traffic without major re-engineering and spending some real money is a really bad idea.
The carriage road gives the illusion of safety now because of low traffic on it, but all the cross streets and the commercial areas are the problem and this plan doesn’t properly address that. This shouldn’t be done on the cheap or without limiting where the cars can go.
Glad it came up. Parking along the berm - anywhere - is illegal. But because everybody understands that there is no other place for the parking for the retail, it’s overlooked. So if they’re made official, that would be good.
The EB bike lane goes next to the parked cars.
Aha. That was not at all clear from the drawing, so Nicole or Jason can review that at the meeting.
I think in this area having formal lanes doesn’t really work. This space is something like a cross between a road, two intersections, and a parking lot. To me, the carriageway here could be behave more like a long crosswalk but for bikes, if that makes sense, a “follow the yellow brick road” through the parking lot.
Somehow, Hall and Oats keeps running through my mind here… “Is it a star, or is it…” A yellow brick road would be interesting. Divide up the space between the back bumpers of the cars angled parking, and the cars by the berm, and paint some acceptable markings for WB and EB? Until the problem can be dealt with differently. Runners and the cyclists always seem to find a middle ground, whichever direction they’re heading in. I spoke to Karen Blacker a few months ago and asked her to ask their drivers to not park by the berm when the store is closed to give the cyclists and runners their max space after retail hours. They’ve been good about that since then.
I agree this location will need engineering… It still won’t be easy.
That’s a sign that the businesses are finding success! (As well they should: What other store in Newton Centre sells "02459’s?)
City of Newton 2nd Public Information Session
Commonwealth Ave Carriageway
Proposal to create two-way bike travel on the Carriageway Thursday November 4, 2021 5:30-7:00 PM
Nicole Freedman
Director of Transportation Planning
City of Newton
Planning Department
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